Ode to Losers

[Saul]

Depending on what kinds and locations etc...

Plumbers, mechanics (auto to a degree, aircraft especially), welders, sanitation (certain aspects), some janitorial, truck drivers (can easily earn 50-100K even more sometimes), forklift and such equiptment operators, good construction jobs....

And it is funny, one of the gender gaps in pay is desire/not to do hard sucky work.....

If you are actually willing to work, it is there.

Now jobs well over 100k? Tend to get less without degrees, but depending on where you live, there is no reason why with not being stupid 50+k is not advancing.

And often if you live somewhere tougher... heck I have known janitors willing to work a littl overtine make 70-100K...


And the thing is for instance I know a hospital cleaner who makes 80k, his second level executive makes beteen 75-99k.

The cleaner makes such by working OT, whereas the salaried executive is generally madated to work extra all the time.

You see the work hours vs success? In fact alot of jobs over 100 include "you WILL work when we tell you" vs the lesser who can make about the same "you CAN work" life quality decisions.

Know the expression "doctor is always on call"????

The doc makes 200k maybe and works random, loses vacations, etc. If you are sweeping the floor in the same place and decide to only work 40 hours and refuse OT... you chose time over money.

Seriously, probably more than not degree good paying jobs require more work hours or the chance to work way too much.

I know people who realized to regret decisions like taking that "promotion" from making 50K base to 80K base. Problem is they become required (with no pay) to work when their people work. With time and a half their underlings doing the extra hours end up making more than them....

Now alot more decent pay degree jobs are far more easy work, pushing papers around. And there it is, "I can't get anywhere bc I have no degree" should actually be a quote of

"I can't do the least amount of hard work and make alot without a degree"

You can be a top exec who is always away on business and never sees his fam making 100k or a truck driver doing the same. But then there is pride, you(general) want to wear that suit and sound important...


http://www.businessinsider.com/high-...nd-repairers-9

Of course hard work and determination is required to make money. I am only saying that across the board, level of education is directly related to financial success and necessary for high paying jobs.

[LethalMouse]

Of course hard work and determination is required to make money. I am only saying that across the board, level of education is directly related to financial success and necessary for high paying jobs.

A quick search said there were just under 1 million doctors and 3.5 million truck drivers. I would bet with effort we could find a good slew of similar good no education to good with education jobs. The only point I would say in the near future as Computer jobs are growing etc, that the companies etc that used to hire anyone who could do the job increasingly seek degrees. But for now I am familiar with a Data Center where everyone makes bank, and about 50% are without any degree....

Certain narratives are hammered home into the brain, and they get repeated. I remember long before the internet hearing something from a trusted adult and believing it because, why not? Then discussing it decades later and doing a quick search to see that it is a fake fb post, that was a fake email chain, that was a fake mail chain, that was an urban legend. Such is life.

[Saul]

A quick search said there were just under 1 million doctors and 3.5 million truck drivers. I would bet with effort we could find a good slew of similar good no education to good with education jobs. The only point I would say in the near future as Computer jobs are growing etc, that the companies etc that used to hire anyone who could do the job increasingly seek degrees. But for now I am familiar with a Data Center where everyone makes bank, and about 50% are without any degree....

Certain narratives are hammered home into the brain, and they get repeated. I remember long before the internet hearing something from a trusted adult and believing it because, why not? Then discussing it decades later and doing a quick search to see that it is a fake fb post, that was a fake email chain, that was a fake mail chain, that was an urban legend. Such is life.

I think there is a difference about what we mean when we say "high paying jobs."

[LethalMouse]

I think there is a difference about what we mean when we say "high paying jobs."

Well, there is a middle ground, where I would concede in that between about 150K and 500K you pretty much need a degree.

However when you go above 500, alot of times degree numbers start dropping O.o as other posters pointed out among the millionaire/billionaire types.

But we are discussing the "poor losers" many of whom make 50-100 and proclaim themselves "poor unfairly stuck blah blah" but 5 years of not being an idiot, and they would start growinf money as if it did grow on trees.

The only epic killer in this world is the split families which preclude money.

As a divorced prerson with a kids, I have spent enough money to buy my house in cash twice on nothingness. As a skilled trade type, imagine if I was responsible in a world that I wasn't the majority? I'd likely not be divorced etc... my house would be paid for, I'd have been in several lucrative investments I missed out on etc..


But in the end my satus as not rich boils down purely to personal choices and personal circumstances. But I know people who make twice what I do with no extra insane wastes of money like mine, and they live more paycheck to paycheck than I do. They are mixed in with the same people who think all this modern narrative is true....

They have a spending like the governmenr budget problem, not an income problem. In fact, the government reflects its society in a republic, so that about sums up why most people are poor.

But the income/spending falls into the quote about everyone being equal and tomorrow having the same classes, the need for certain jobs is because without the handed to you income, these people won't make their own money..

I suppose on the flip side, if the majority were smart like that, it really would be hard to make money lol.

Also, I am talking education as the barrative goes of process and not "learning stuff"... you should learn stuff, and learning stuff leads to prosperity and good money management etc, process is in part of the "please guide me so I dont have to think for myself"

[LethalMouse]

Watching "It's A Wonderful Life" and notable George Bailey (the good guy) and Potter (the bad guy) were the only two in their area that didn't act like morons during the depression. As a result they were the only people to walk out of it "on top".

The rest of the population can blame themselves for their fail.

That doesn't mean you should be like Potter, no, you should be like Bailey (who was not rich bc of how he helped people), BUT you can act like Bailey and be honest about the fact that everyone besidws you and Potter were idiots.

[SilverShadow]

When people say 'education' they generally mean standardized, industrialized, overpriced and overvalued systems.

I received an education. I never set foot in a school.

I have been consistently shown to know more useful information (and by that I do NOT mean who won American Idol) than college-educated people - as a for instance, with a smattering of Latin and some deductive reasoning, I knew more than a whole gaggle of degree-endowed nurses who couldn't remember whether OD/OS was right eye/left eye in a doctor's order. So they didn't know where to put the medicine. And the little peon sitting next to them merely to watch the alarmed doors which were disabled due to remodeling (me), hesitantly piped up,

"Well, since Sinister is left in Latin and Dexter is right, I'm guessing OD is right eye and OS is left."

What response did I get? "Oh, I don't think it has anything to do with Latin." (If the sheer ignorance of this statement doesn't scare you... then there's nothing I can do for you.) Really? Medical terms have nothing to do with Latin?!

One google search later... and guess who was right?

Yeah, I really want the 'educated' people to hold my life in their hands.

No, this isn't an isolated incident, either. I could list several examples of all the highly educated people around me being highly ignorant of pretty basic stuff.

Never heard of the word 'cavalry', for instance. Now how in the world do you make it through history class and never hear about that?! This was an RN.

[LethalMouse]

As to being a loser and Silver mentioning American Idol:

Ask 100 random people if the watch American Idol, and also if they watch CNBC (or equivalent)

I'd bet that there would be two results:

1. American Idol scores more people

2. There is a notable difference in success levels between the minority and majority in this polling.

Education people choose is that Simon guy, the education they refuse is that numbers stuff.

[CCF_Denise]

As a chime in here...

Employer I currently work for does not require more than a high school education or equivalent to move up within the company; however, they will expect relevant work experience for higher management positions. And their pay is very competitive with similar companies in the region. I personally know several folks within the company who do not have a college degree and make well over $75K/year. And they are interested in making sure they remain competitive in their niche, even in the lower-paying entry-level jobs, to the point they will raise wages in an area to remain competitive with their main competitor when they see the need to do so, especially if it brings them the talent they desire.

How often do those kinds of jobs exist? I have no idea. But I can say they are definitely out there, and I doubt seriously they are as rare as some would like to believe.

[SilverShadow]

As a chime in here...

Employer I currently work for does not require more than a high school education or equivalent to move up within the company; however, they will expect relevant work experience for higher management positions. And their pay is very competitive with similar companies in the region. I personally know several folks within the company who do not have a college degree and make well over $75K/year. And they are interested in making sure they remain competitive in their niche, even in the lower-paying entry-level jobs, to the point they will raise wages in an area to remain competitive with their main competitor when they see the need to do so, especially if it brings them the talent they desire.

How often do those kinds of jobs exist? I have no idea. But I can say they are definitely out there, and I doubt seriously they are as rare as some would like to believe.

Education in the sense of being taught the job, is very important.

In the sense of jumping through predetermined hoops for a piece of paper that says you spent x money and x time with little regard for actual results... Far less important.

That's the only point we're trying to make.

[LethalMouse]

As a chime in here...

Employer I currently work for does not require more than a high school education or equivalent to move up within the company; however, they will expect relevant work experience for higher management positions. And their pay is very competitive with similar companies in the region. I personally know several folks within the company who do not have a college degree and make well over $75K/year. And they are interested in making sure they remain competitive in their niche, even in the lower-paying entry-level jobs, to the point they will raise wages in an area to remain competitive with their main competitor when they see the need to do so, especially if it brings them the talent they desire.

How often do those kinds of jobs exist? I have no idea. But I can say they are definitely out there, and I doubt seriously they are as rare as some would like to believe.

I think these jobs do, or have existed in large. I think I mentioned elsewhere on the thread, but even as a kid i never made min wage.

Now jobs like server that can clear decent money, also have gotten worse with corporate places giving 2 tables to a waiter or such but still.

Had a friend at work low level, made 16/hr, got a PT job serving drinks at the casino and cleared more in 2 nights there than 40hours at her primary job...

Our casino has umpteen server etc. The same people working at min wage for 30years rarely keep trying for these kinds of jobs. Let alone work like her, doing close to 60hrs a week and making what? About 70K... onky reason she quit here was to do college and to get a job making 50K but working LESS...and doing wha she perfers, but it can be sone if you are willing to work the 60 hours for a year or 2 :/

[SilverShadow]

In a world where merely showing up on time without a hangover makes you a stellar employee... Just how many 'losers' are self-made? It causes one to wonder.

[DNW]

Because of the title of this thread I was expecting a poem akin to this ;-))))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_on_a_Grecian_Urn

[SilverShadow]

Because of the title of this thread I was expecting a poem akin to this ;-))))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_on_a_Grecian_Urn

Is that a challenge?

- - - Updated - - -

According to the media (yes, i include Fox News), only those who are rich and famous and/or beautiful are "winners."

Well, here is a big THANK YOU to all the "losers" of the world, those who do the right thing (with what they have, which isn't always much), but rarely, if ever get to be called "winner."

If you love your children and do your best by them, but cannot give them a car when they turn 16, or even their own bedroom, or even more than one gift @ Christmastime, you are still a winner. God bless you.

If you love your spouse but cannot afford to give him/her a Christmas gift over $50, but put a lot of thought into the gift just the same.. you are a winner. God bless you.

If you go to daily Mass even though people in your family ridicule you and call you a Jesus Freak.. you are a winner. God bless you, and of course, we already know God blesses you b/c He gave u the Mass (and you appreciate it).

If you are given a life full of rotten lemons but you do what you can with what you have and dont break laws and dont abuse people, you are NOT a loser as many of the "successful" would have you believe. I thank you so much for your contribution to society, and for your faithfulness to Christ. You are NOT a loser no matter what the media tells you, or implies--and they are ALWAYS implying that you out there without money, youth, fame and/or beauty are losers!!!!!!!

No, they do not tell you this explicity. It is IMPLIED, it is always subtle.. and yet these days, it is NOT subtle. All those who make under $40,000 a year know all too well how UN-subtle it is.

It is those who promote this kind of lie who are the losers!

"Carry on, my wayward son, there'll be peace when you are done-- lay your weary head to rest... don't you cry no more--"

Well after reading this I realized...

No one bought me a car. I never had my own room. Not only did we never get the year's popular toy for Christmas, we didn't even know what it was. My father refused to let us own electronic gaming systems. I didn't have a housecat of my own until I could pay for everything myself.

We weren't rich, we weren't poor... Some of it, like the video games, was more ideology than money...

Did that make us losers? My sister is joining a convent in the spring. I'm in a serious relationship with a good man... And didn't date and get hurt when I was too young to discern marriage.

I never got in trouble... I'm not in debt... I do have some money saved...

Am I the loser you're talking about? Because that's not a loser.


Losers are like my cousins with DUIs, out of wedlock children, alcohol problems, and drug issues...

All choices that they themselves made. Are we perhaps talking about two different standards here?


Lethal makes more money so what he gave me was more (money wise) than what I gave him... But I went to efforts to customize what I did give him to make it more special, and he appreciated it.

So again... I fail to see the 'loser' part. Who exactly throws around that designation, anyway?

If you are talking about how they correlate money with success... Well, of course they will. That's the easiest way to define it. And only entities with money advertise with them, so what do you expect? They know where their bread is buttered.

The ads do the same thing. You will be (cool, pretty, liked, etc) if you have/do X!

There are entire branches of psychology dedicated to legally lying in this manner. Is anyone really surprised at the results?

Sorry, I may as well add that they encourage this perception because they need you to have money so they can sell you things you don't need, transferring the money to them... And if you have no money, use credit!

So if you don't go into debt to make them money, you're useless to them and hence a 'loser'.

[montana15]

good job removing the OP

now no one knows what is being referred to..

geez

[SilverShadow]

good job removing the OP

now no one knows what is being referred to..

geez

The OP that is right there at the top of the page...?

I am genuinely confused.